Episode 94 - Pursuit of Authentic Health with Molly Sanders

Jackie Haigh: 0:00

Welcome to Conversations that Matter with your host, amber Howard. Each week, amber dances, in conversation with inspirational leaders, out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real-life experience of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now here's your host.

Amber Howard: 0:24

Welcome back everyone. Welcome back to the Conversations that Matter podcast. I am so honored, blessed, thrilled, excited, overjoyed to have Molly Sanders on the show today. Woo-hoo, molly has worked in the holistic health sector for over a decade as a certified nutrition practitioner. Molly is the CEO and founder of the Beyond Food program. She created the program. Natural health came to Molly randomly and accidentally and we want to hear all about that, and she is committed to put health back in the hands of the individual. She's committed that we all have ownership and autonomy and that we are in the driver's seat of our own health goals. And who Molly is for me everyone. Molly is one of my best friends. We are living it up large in Bali together. We've known each other for well since 2017,.

Jackie Haigh: 1:14

I think, Six years.

Amber Howard: 1:16

But you know, this time together that we've spent in Bali has really just like deepened our friendship and intimacy and we're business partners, and so it's just like really an honor. Molly, thank you so much for having this time with me and sharing yourself with us.

Molly Sanders: 1:30

Yeah, I'm excited to be here, me too.

Amber Howard: 1:35

So we always start at the you know, not at the beginning, but you know, giving you an opportunity to really talk about what has your journey been like to get to where you are in your life today?

Molly Sanders: 1:45

Good Lord, I feel like I've had many chapters, but in, you know, kind of thinking about this yesterday, especially in the context of what we're creating, your creative life, which we can, you know, talk about later. Now, I was thinking when I was in university, my degree was in English but there were always these courses that I wanted to take that, you know, didn't fit in my curriculum or they were a regular course when I needed an honors credit, excuse me. So I did a lot of independent studies, I did a lot of like add on so that I could finagle these courses into, into what it is that I needed, so that I could graduate. So I worked in an entomology lab, I did a case study on Japanese theater, like all sorts of weird, of crazy things and why.

Molly Sanders: 2:44

I'm telling you that is when I'm looking back, that kind of to me that was creating my life. I wanted something and I just kept asking questions until I got it, and I think that that's been the case ever since. You know when I'm. You know I've lived in Germany, I lived in a bunch of different states in the US and moved to Canada, but it all kind of came from this place, like well, if I want to do something. I'm just going to figure out how to do it and it's. It's landed me here with you in Bali, and I feel like there's so many tangents that I could go down and I don't really know which, which one to pick.

Amber Howard: 3:32

Well, one of the things I love about your story, you know, and I know this from our friendship is it's pretty unpredictable, right it is, and I think that's the thing which taught Kansas, you know, grew up in that kind of Midwest.

Molly Sanders: 3:43

US and.

Amber Howard: 3:43

Catholic school, catholic school environment, and, and you've made a lot of decisions in your life, I think, from that place of what do I want, not what should I do, or what would other people who grew up around me do, what would my community do, or even my parents and family? Yeah, and you know you've made choices that have like, had you be in conflict with some of those things and and I think that, like that's one of my big commitments in life is people get that, they get to create their life based on their standards and measurements for happiness and success, not based on what you know, what our peer society or friends, and I think you're a really great example of that and I think it's given you. I mean, sometimes I think you think your life wasn't a structured or maybe predictable, you know, as it could have been or should have been or whatever. As human beings we engage in those conversations but it's given you a very rich life.

Molly Sanders: 4:31

Definitely. You know, for my age, like I said, I feel like I've had multiple lifetimes. What's, what's interesting, when you were just speaking, is this question of what do I want. I feel like that's actually something. That's only that I've actually been allowing myself to look from very recently, but in all of those decisions before, I think we're very much a reaction to wanting to be not that, not what I grew up in, not the environment that I felt like I was kind of stuck in, and so I think for a few years there, you know, the pendulum swung the other way, and not that it's good or bad, because it led to so many things like so much travel, meaning so many interesting people, even even my career and holistic nutrition right, we can't be a doctor, because that's what every or dietitian, you know, because that's a straight and narrow. You know it's got to be different and alternative, and but I do believe you know it's it's. It's brought me here and we were talking about this earlier.

Molly Sanders: 5:38

You know, I think this shift, and probably even just since being in Bali, you know, or slightly before, is when I would say that that shift to. Well, what do I actually want? Not, what do I think I should want. What do I think other people think that I should want, but what do I really want? And this chapter and it's, it's opened up this space for this whole new level of authenticity and creativity, and I'm still figuring a lot of it out, you know, it still feels pretty new and exciting, but also scary, yeah, yeah.

Amber Howard: 6:17

And so when I what I heard I want you were just saying is like engaging in that question of what do I want, consciously, not as an active rebellion and you and I will share a bit of a rebellious streak, I think what? But I think that is, like you know, what most people do, right, like when we create in life, it's not. It's not a conscious creation, it's a, you know, as you said, it's a reaction to what I don't want.

Amber Howard: 6:40

Or circumstances that you know or like, like a culture or family values or whatever it is. But I remember being in a family coaching session with Larry Pearson years ago and he was like your version of family is not created. If you like what your parents did, you replicate that and if you didn't, you do the opposite. But it's not a conscious act and I think you and I spent a lot of time talking about what we want and what it looks like to live a creative life and and like what our community that we're building which will be more to come on that this shows about Molly and and the work that she's up to but we can do another one for that, we coming back to talk about this broader community that we're out to create with yeah, maybe we'll do an episode with the entire team, that would be great and what living a creative life means to them and to each of us.

Amber Howard: 7:26

But I think that's a big part of it is it's consciously asking that question and doing the looking and it's not like it's a simple question what do I want? But it's so loaded for most of us because and you know, I think that would be a great time to kind of get into one of your areas of expertise what we're here to talk about is like health and well being and nutrition, because for us, we're always looking at those eight dimensions of well being and and health is a huge one and a very loaded one for most of us, myself included. For, for those listening, molly is my nutritionalist and she's been, like you know, just foundational in helping me transform my relationship to food and my body and my health, my well being and, and you know, just really removing shame and a lot of that from my own conversations about that area of my life. But yeah, like asking that question what do I want? Consciously, not as some kind of reaction, I think is a very integral part to what we're up to here.

Molly Sanders: 8:25

Well, yeah, and I think, when it comes to health, you know I talk about this in the new course that I am putting out shortly, called the intro to introspective wellness but it is very difficult right now these days, you know, if you think about what we're exposed to in terms of you know, all the people and thoughts and reviews and advertisements and whatever, all the things that are coming at us and I say coming at us very intentionally, because it's not like you're sitting there on your computer and being like what do I want to see in front of my face?

Molly Sanders: 9:04

Today.

Molly Sanders: 9:05

It's very much coming at us and it leads to so many things, but one of one of which is that this experience of not, you know, these are the things I'm not doing, these are the things I'm not good at, these are the things I can't afford, these are the things I'm, you know, not on top of these are the things that I don't have, that this person has, and you and a lot of us are, even if you're aware of it, even me, I am aware of it, but I don't get the entirety of the impact of constantly seeing those things right, and it doesn't even have to just be online.

Molly Sanders: 9:51

There's the products in the supermarket, there's at your local or your favorite spot, the gluten-free things that can push up a surge of guilt if you eat the gluten. The healthy dessert when you choose the non-healthy dessert, like it's so nuanced and it's so pervasive but it is so incredibly impactful. But then to bring that to this question of what do I want, the first thing, which I don't think we will talk about today, but the first thing is even giving yourself permission to ask that question, which isn't easy for a lot of people, but myself included. But once you get there, there is a shitstorm to wade through and it takes a little bit of time and focus to be able to sit there. And I was writing something yesterday about fitness for me, which I'm not an athlete, I've never been an athlete.

Molly Sanders: 10:52

I don't like to be sweaty, I don't like to be hot, it's not something I would prefer to spend my time on, although that's changing a little bit. But I think part of that is when I ask myself what I want. The first thing was like, oh, I want to lose weight. And then I just threw that out because that's just the surface level answer. And so ask myself that question again what I want to be fit, what I want to be strong. And not that those are wrong, but for me they were kind of the right answer, or the thing that I should say or why I should want that.

Molly Sanders: 11:33

And there's a couple of layers like that. That's, the reason to be active is so you can feel fit and feel strong. But that wasn't from me. And then when I drilled down a little bit deeper, it was like, well, actually I really want to be, I want to feel athletic. But that was something from a very young age that I remember sixth grade volleyball tryouts. I saw these people who at 10, were so active and so good at sports and I was like I'm not that person and it became this thing that I can't even want because it's not possible. But how can you? You can kind of see how many layers I had to go through there to even get that, and then I have to start grappling with. Well, I can't do that, or can I do that? Why can't I do that? And there's just so much to unpack and we're just talking about one thing. So being able to slice through that noise is a really layered and can be complex and very nuanced thing that you kind of just spend some time massaging that capability.

Amber Howard: 12:54

Well, and I think, a big part of the reason for that. I remember once having a conversation with a friend of mine who you know, by society standards or whatever you know, spent a lot of her life being overweight. And you know, talking about that noise or all of that influx of information coming at you all of the time, the images that we see, the you know, the, the what was like, what's attractive or beautiful. Now, at this moment, oh, curvy is becoming attractive, but then all of a sudden curvy becomes athletic, right, like all of this, like changing you know kind of the underlying network of conversations. I think is the same, but the way it gets portrayed, you know, publicly is different. But I remember her saying to me like I've never even had the freedom to be able to decide for myself whether I like my body, because my whole life my body has been wrong.

Molly Sanders: 13:43

Yeah.

Amber Howard: 13:43

Right and and not not, whatever that expression of attractive or appropriate or yeah.

Amber Howard: 13:50

You know, even for myself, you know, I remember Peter and I went to like a clothing optional hot springs in California, which is hugely confronting experience, like you just can fronting I could go clothing optional in the middle of the night when everyone else is sleeping, kind of thing. But I did a lot of writing then and part of it was, like you know, this experience of my body being cut up like my whole life. It's like there are certain parts of my body that are okay and appropriate and acceptable and likable and attractive and other parts of my body, like my arms or my legs or my stomach, that are not right. And even talking about this now, I'm like, oh my God, am I saying these things out loud? Who's going to listen to this?

Molly Sanders: 14:28

But but really like that. People can relate to that.

Amber Howard: 14:30

Yeah, like that experience of, like you know, even if.

Amber Howard: 14:34

I could get to the point where I said I like certain parts of myself, like my eyes or my hair or whatever, like it's always from the outside in, like what other people might think is acceptable or appropriate or likable, and it's always like this experience of not being a whole being, and so I think it's super charged and you know I mean it's.

Amber Howard: 14:57

I think for a woman it's been that way for you know time memorial that I think for men more and more, you know they're having the courage to talk about their own lived experience of being embodied and yeah, and what that's like and but I love this like.

Amber Howard: 15:13

So you know I've got to watch you go through this journey of creating the introspective wellness course and your own journey, since you know, coming to Bali and the time that we spend here and the experiences we've had of this like, yeah, there's all of this information out there and some of you know most of it could be great and some of it's great for you and some of it's not, but it's like I get to decide. It's like from the inside out, like it's this introspective wellness course that you've created, but even the thinking that underpins that course is like a created life and a created experience of my health and my well-being is like, comes from here, comes from me and what I want and what I care about and my values. And then I get to look out at the world, at all of this different information and all of this you know, these products and whatever else there is out there and make decisions that are best for me and my own journey, not based on some should. Yeah.

Molly Sanders: 16:07

Yeah, and that's a. You know, I think that's a whole intention this time around. I was saying to you earlier, you know, relaunching this program. It's been a couple of years. It feels very personal and very intimate to me this time around, which is kind of bizarre to say because I created the whole thing before. You know it is still mine.

Molly Sanders: 16:34

But I think the road that I had to go down because I dealt with a couple of things One was an extreme hormone issue and one was, you know, panic attacks and anxiety and medium COVID, like post COVID, and I would say those are the two most traumatic health issues that I've experienced, as you know, in my lifetime. But my intention is to open up the space and bring more space for the individual because, you know, at one point in time when my hormones were at the worst you know it was like two weeks out of every month I could barely get out of bed. So, and it was pretty damaging to kind of compare where I was at to where I thought I should be, what I thought I should be doing, and that was just my comparison to myself, forget everything else. You know there's a lot of external noise that I tried to figure out what was going on. But to open up that space so that people can, you know, get into the thinking that this is cyclical, right, and what I, where I'm looking from, what I want and what I need right now, in this moment, it will change, it will evolve, it will expand and contract many times over. You know, there will be days where all you can handle is drinking water and there will be days where you check everything off your to-do list and do everything that you want to do for yourself, you know.

Molly Sanders: 18:19

But but opening up the space around that process of going through the process, it's kind of it's a bit it's a bit meta, it's like a bit once removed. But I think that's the point, because all of this I think where the heaviness comes from is all this information that's coming at us. It's very focused on what, on doing something, buying something, taking something, changing something you know working out, changing what you're putting in your, in your, on your plate or in your body. It's very focused on activity, but that, you know, delving into the process and being able to take a beat, slow down and look at, well, what actually, what actually makes sense for me right now?

Molly Sanders: 19:07

There may be 10 things on my list that I want to change, but let's pick a lane. Let's just pick, pick a lane, you know, and go after that, because that's empowering and it's exciting, that's interesting and it's fun and it's engaging and there's room to play and explore there. You know, that's, that's what I, I want for people. I don't, I really don't want the suffering, because I have suffered plenty. I have suffered with you, yeah.

Amber Howard: 19:32

I remember, like you know.

Amber Howard: 19:33

I mean, I think I made a conscious choice at one point in time, however conscious it could have been. I remember you know a loved one. We were talking about their experience of their. You know their, their weight specifically, and you know they've dieted like they've done everything in the other, their whole lives, right. And I just remember, I think it was in my like oh what, I'll be 45 this year. I think it was in my 30s at the time and I just like, I mean like, being completely honest, I think you know I don't ever have an end. You know I look at pictures of myself when I was a young girl, before I had Matthew at 16, which, of course, changed my body in ways that I don't even know. Having kids that young, you know, having Katelyn Matthew. But you know I was by all an outside standards thin as a young girl, but I don't have an embodied memory of being thin my entire life.

Amber Howard: 20:21

Like my entire life, my relationship to my physical form has been one of, like you know, for most of my life and not now it's transforming, it's probably, you know, it's the area I've been working on most recently, you know, but for most of my life it was discussed and wrong and shame and you know like just judgment about everything. But I remember being in my 30s and just getting that like this whole relationship of like the roller coaster, dieting and doing the next fat, and all of that was all in order to fix something that was wrong and broken, and I remember just being like I'm not going to do that and you know, I'm going to do the whatever. Whatever work I'm going to do on me, like the physical form will come and I think there are points in my life I would have been perfectly happy to be a disembodied mind floating around in the universe, like that that would have. I thought that would have been preferable. And then I really got my relationship to my mind and I'm like that probably would have been its own form of torture. But you know, like just I'm finally at a place in my life where, yeah, there are parts of my body that I wish were somewhat, you know, would like to work on.

Amber Howard: 21:25

But it's like accepting my physical body and being grateful and I think a big part of it was starting with that gratitude you know of like wow, I have this physical body and it allows me to hug Molly and it allows me to eat amazing food and it allows me to get on a scooter and drive to, to a boat and experience the rice paddies, like I wouldn't get to have those experiences if I didn't have this vessel that you know Amber lives in, and and like to the point that you are making, and it's like taking those little steps, whatever they are, picking water or something.

Amber Howard: 21:59

It's like you know and and you know I've been developing a water habit for probably the last five years. It's only since we moved to a tropical country that I finally got to the point where you know it's either drink water or die, I think here in in in Bali. But like it took, however long it took, and it, you know, and there were so many beliefs there still are beliefs to unpack and work on and look at and identify and and and by identifying me, because a lot of them are subconscious and they're just running the show. But I like what you were kind of pointing to and I think this is something we've also started talking about a lot lately is practicing.

Molly Sanders: 22:35

Yeah.

Amber Howard: 22:35

You know, like no one would expect to be an Olympic athlete without decades of mastering something and that when it comes to the living of our life, and especially, I think, in this area of health, we have it like, if we fail in our first week of some new practice or some new you know routine that we're doing, if we, you know for the, for the smokers, and you know whatever it's like, oh, you try to quit smoking and if you fail, your failure and it's never going to work.

Amber Howard: 23:02

It's never going to work. Or, you know, alcohol I didn't get.

Amber Howard: 23:04

You know, I started going to the gym with you for and I went for a couple of weeks and then I didn't go and I haven't gone back and I and I may or I may not, or I might walk or do something else, but like not beating the crap out of ourselves and allowing that space for some play in practice when it comes to, you know, all of the areas of our life, but I think this one is the one where most of us get really down get really down and really like.

Molly Sanders: 23:30

Self critical, self judgmental. Well, yeah, and it's. You know this, this idea of I'm going to call it perceived failure, because it's not failure, it's perceived failure. You know, it's our own judgment about our own expectations of ourselves. And I have it too. I picked a yoga video the other day and I can do about half the half the poses and I really battled with myself about like, oh, messing something up I'm. You know, I have to do something else to compensate for the fact that I didn't complete the video or whatever.

Molly Sanders: 24:07

But when I talk about opening up the space, you know, if, if we have an incident like that, what I, what I want to encourage people and, you know, teach people, because it is or it is something, it is a habit, it's a, it's a pattern, it's something that, like, to your point, you have to practice. But in those moments, to be able to like, think of on an iPhone, like when you zoom out of the picture, when you zoom out and you're kind of looking, well, what was the perfect storm, that that had, that, had that happened? Because and again, this is the problem of being bombarded by the doing right Like, change this food, take this supplement, do this workout as long as you like. For a lot of people that's not actually the first step. For a lot of people the first step is to look elsewhere. You know, and it could be, you know, suppressed communication with a spouse or with a co-worker or a family member, because that's just so heavy, you don't have energy to do something else.

Molly Sanders: 25:15

Or it's really looking at your job. You know, we live in this time now there's so much freedom to kind of create what it is that you want for your career. You know, and that could be, you know, switching up your hours or your responsibilities or changing your job completely so that you're not sitting in a soul-sucking environment eight hours a day again, so that you have energy to do other things. But it's challenging because that's so individual. It's so individual and the answer only rests with you. And when all that information is coming externally at you, you're not in that. None of those things are in that conversation and we're not practiced at looking at it like that. So it's not even on most people's radar to look outside of, you know, the health silo, because you're really to see it as a silo right.

Molly Sanders: 26:16

What are the activities that I, what are the boxes I should be checking for my health? It doesn't occur to look elsewhere, but it's critical. It's critical and often what I've seen personally and what I've seen with the clients that I work with, is when you kind of do that adjacent work first and you look at well, okay, I'm trying to change something, which takes effort, I'm trying to do something new which takes effort, what do I need to, what do I want to look at so that I have the capacity to be able to do that? And if I don't, okay, well, let's course correct, let's adjust.

Amber Howard: 26:57

Yeah, so good. I'm reminded of and I know that the book is about money, but that you know the book of the energy of money by Maria Namath, where she talks about trouble at the border right when you take something from an idea in the metaphysical world which is light and fluffy and airy, and it's like oh, I want to, you know, I want my I want my summer body, or I want to drop 20 pounds, or I want to.

Amber Howard: 27:16

You know, whatever it is right, it's like you know we have all of these thoughts and ideas all the time. But when you try to move those into the physical world, where energy, you know, same thing, it's all energy, but it's heavier and denser. You know she talks about this trouble at the border and that there's always trouble at the border when you move something from an idea into reality. But if we can start to anticipate what those that trouble at the border is for ourselves, right, have space for it. Have space for it Honor, even honor it, right, like, even honor.

Amber Howard: 27:43

You know, I remember there's like you know you're talking about working a soul sucking job eight hours a day. I don't know that I ever had it, that I worked a soul sucking job, but it was way more than eight hours a day. And then, like, if I did have any free time, you know the way my brain would just, you know, like decompress, would be like watching some TV or playing a game on my phone or something like that If you work 16 hours, you don't want to go cook a cook a meal, well, but but then that's when you know, well, like I say I want these things and I should be cooking a healthy meal or I should like I the gym's right downstairs, Like what's wrong with you that you can't just go down and, you know, get on the treadmill.

Amber Howard: 28:19

But it's like you know it's taken coming here and I you know I've shared this with you and a few other people my time here in Bali is the first time in my life where I actually feel nurtured and taken care of and you know we're talking 45 years on this planet and it's just like what I've gone through in the experiences I've had and how much of my life I spent taking care of other people. I still take care of other people, but now it's like I'm getting taken care of as well and there is time for some of these other things. One cause I'm not working as much as I used to. Two, because I have the mental space and I did a lot of that. Like there has been a lot of work.

Amber Howard: 28:58

You know, I think I've been on, you know, the bootcamp of personal development since 2016,. Like really rigorous engagement with those questions and looking at myself and my beliefs and what do I want and how do I want to experience life in? You know, thankfully in 2021, through participating in the wisdom course, like really getting practice. I did not have practice I had like, even after a lot of personal development work. It was even worse in some ways because, like you know, I really don't like the term woke, but whatever that is, when you start to get more awareness, all of a sudden that awareness becomes like just another tool, the hammer that you bring down.

Amber Howard: 29:39

It's like oh, now I should know better, right, because I've got these tools and I'm not using these tools and that perceived failure. It's like when you start something or you go to do something and you don't, you've just got more weapons to beat the crap out of yourself with right. It's really getting practice, that it's like oh, like okay. And this concept of you know another big concept from that course that we've talked about is starting and stopping, like that is just part of human nature. We start and stop, and if you can get that and not make starting and stopping wrong, which most of us do, then you have some again. I think this is your word like space, to say, to inquire do I want to start again or do I want to stop that and do something new? But it becomes a choice that you're making based on what it is that you want in this moment of now not, it's a very emotional reaction.

Jackie Haigh: 30:30

Yeah.

Molly Sanders: 30:31

Well, and one of the things that I really like about that is in this idea of honoring is you know that the resistance to change is actually your brain functioning normally. It's doing its job. You know, it has its bent towards efficiency. It wants to follow habits and patterns because that's how it expends the least amount of energy. And when you start to want to change something, you're asking, you know, you're asking your brain to work in a way that it doesn't like to work, you know, and to do work. That it's it is designed for, but that it takes more effort and that's completely normal.

Molly Sanders: 31:14

You know and I think that's one of the things coupled with everything that you just say is, is it's so powerful to start to normalize the process of change? And it is a process. It happens over time. It's very up and down and forwards and backwards, and in and out and completely off the chart and then back on. Like you said, if we keep engaging in this kind of a conversation, that's just part of it. The goal isn't to make a plan, stick to it perfectly or quit, which is kind of the option for most people. Okay, well, I'm not doing it perfectly, so this isn't right, let's jump ship.

Amber Howard: 32:03

Sorry, this laughter and recognition over here. Yeah, yeah.

Molly Sanders: 32:08

So, and I think even that conversation will take time, but it is one of the things I'm excited about, because there's a heavy community aspect to the Beyond Food program this time around, where I am going to get to share a lot of this stuff that we're talking about and dive into it with people and that didn't exist before, and I think that's one of the things that feels so. I'm using the word intimate even though it's going to be digital but like intimate to be able to keep connecting with people and keep supporting people and opening up that conversation in a way that I couldn't have done before because I hadn't gone through what I'd gone through in the last few years.

Amber Howard: 32:58

Yeah, you have to go through a real process. You know, like you and I kind of around COVID right. So we kind of fell out of touch a little bit because of some changes in life choices and pathways and I'm so grateful that the universe has brought us back and it's even deeper now than it ever was like the level of intimacy in our relationship. But you had to go through a period where you went very inward.

Molly Sanders: 33:20

Yeah.

Amber Howard: 33:21

You know and just really like you know we talk. I love this concept of the bubble, right, and you know, like we have this bubble that we can put around ourselves not to separate ourselves from other human beings but just to kind of protect our own energy and what it is that we want, and you know. So we're protecting it from the outside by, you know, looking at what's coming in and is what coming in what we want, and then protecting it from you know, to be clean from the inside by being responsible for our thoughts and what we say and all of that stuff. But I think for you, you know you had to cut out a lot of the external so that you could really one heal because you were dealing with some, you know, those health considerations, but also start to engage in that, those conversations, and really look at what it was that you wanted for your life.

Molly Sanders: 34:07

Yeah, this time last year thinking about talking to anybody would have been a horrible idea.

Molly Sanders: 34:13

You know, I say I pretty much I talk to you but because we saw each other, I talked to my parents and I talked to my best friend, ellen that was about it and my sister, mark. I just didn't have the, I didn't have the space for it, but and I mean I had the space for it but I didn't have the what do I want to say? I had the space in that I had the space for myself. Not to have the space to be able to do that, that makes sense.

Molly Sanders: 34:49

Yes, but around a roundabout way to get there. I had the space to have no space.

Amber Howard: 35:00

Well, you gave yourself permission, I think, and you didn't make yourself wrong for it, right, no?

Amber Howard: 35:05

And in the past which was, yeah, in the past I think you would have right. Yeah, it's like, oh, I should be keeping in touch with people, I should be maintaining those relationships or this and whatever that, but I think you really gave yourself permission to just do you and take care of you, and whatever that looked like, was was okay, and I think that's a big part of this, and I think one of the things that's just really present to you right now is there's no way it looks.

Molly Sanders: 35:30

There isn't.

Amber Howard: 35:31

And that is something that people get really hooked by. I think it's just, you know, back to that you've got to plan it and then execute it flawlessly, or you failed, but there is no. This is, then, I think, a big part of you know why you created the introduction to inter-respective wellness course and are trying, you know, are out to enroll people in this idea of you know like internal, external is, like it's your journey around your health and wellbeing, and you get to be in the driver's seat, as you like to say, of what that looks like.

Molly Sanders: 35:57

And there's a couple of things there, right, because even though I wouldn't have called it introspective wellness, the Beyond Food program also is very inward looking.

Molly Sanders: 36:08

You know, there is information that I convey but it's all with the intention that it gets mapped on to you and that's very personal and it's very individual. But I think the other thing, like speaking of ownership and autonomy, I think when you can connect to what it is that you want, you have a lot more freedom to get what you need. When you do work with somebody externally, you know, one of the kind of classic examples of where people get stuck in the system is still women with complex hormonal issues, right, and even myself when I knew I was having something that was related to my cycle, but I went to the doctor and she's like oh, you're depressed and full disclosure, any problem. You know, depression medications are useful and helpful for people. I'm not saying that I'm against them, but for me I was like I'm not convinced that that's what's happening, like I'm not ready for that to be my first step, and that's a hard thing to say, you know, like I want a second opinion or I'm actually not. I'm actually not going to do that first.

Jackie Haigh: 37:25

Yeah.

Molly Sanders: 37:26

You know and or saying no, something else is wrong. I need you to. I need this test where I need something, or even when people are working with me, having the freedom to say, well, this is what you recommended. It feels like too much. What's, what's, what's the core here? Or my mind? I can't like my budget's not there. What's, what are the? What are the biggest, the most impactful things that I can do within my means? You know, being able to have this be a dialogue, not a one way street where, okay, well, you're superior, you have the authority, you're going to tell me what to do and I don't have any say. You have tons of say because you, in some ways, you have more say because you are the only person who I'm not going to say. You're the only person who understands your lifestyle, your patterns, your behaviors, your history, your past, how you feel in your body and it's it's not always tangible, but kind of the same thing for me.

Molly Sanders: 38:26

I was like I I do feel down and fatigued, but I don't. I am not certain that I'm chronically depressed and I need to be taking an SSRI or something the first stop for me, but it took a lot. And that was the first time where I really was like, okay, I'm not just going to, you know, be a good, be a good person or be a good patient or whatever, and just do this, try this. Because you said so. I was like no, I want, I want more, I want to understand that, I want to get what I need. To be comfortable taking that step.

Amber Howard: 39:00

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that, and like I love you know, to me, a powerful word of my life these days is honoring, and I think, honoring your own voice, right, and, as you said, it's your body, it's your physical experience, no one else, it's your life, no one else can you know, like, actually tell you, but we're not conditioned that way. Right, we're especially in the area and you know, I've been doing some consulting work in healthcare and this impacts the older generation, I think, a bit more, but all of us. It's still part of the network of conversations, like you know, that concept of authority and the doctors or the experts, or you know that. You know that that means that we should listen and do what we're told and all of that.

Amber Howard: 39:43

You know, there was a time where, like medical professionals were gods, like you never questioned, even if it didn't honor you or even if you didn't want that experience, or yeah, and I think this conversation is really important for people to really take and you know I love one of your words, I think ownership, you know, and and responsibility. But that's why we're here, right, because you can't be responsible for something without awareness. And so, you know, having these conversations, creating a space for dialogue and and introducing these concepts to people so that they can, they are in a position to be able to respond and, and you know, take, take ownership and have that autonomy over their own, their own health and well being.

Molly Sanders: 40:29

Yeah, yeah, and with think, the something to share about all of it is it happens over time. It happens over time and that's something that, again, in this kind of instant, quick fix society is really hard, you know, because it's not sexy, it's not good marketing. This happens over time and with effort. I'm enjoying me, you know, like it's not that exciting.

Amber Howard: 41:08

What do you mean? I can't pay $99 and get this in six months and have the exact result that I want while doing nothing. Yeah, well, and I think you know it's all about belief too, right, though, like you know, I think a big part of what drives all of this is what do we believe? And I really do, I believe it's my truth, not the truth that we don't outperform our beliefs. So, really doing that work upfront to look at, before even get on a scale or before even take, you know, your checkpoint, take an action, go to the gym, get a membership I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on memberships to gyms that I never used. Right, before you take any action, like, look at, you know, do that work, what do I want? And unpack the layers of what a? Well, I say I want that, why do I want that, why is that important to me and what's actually underpinning that, what's the commitment, either declared or undeclared, that's driving you know me to say I want that and what are my beliefs?

Molly Sanders: 42:03

First two answers yeah, they're likely crap.

Amber Howard: 42:07

And what are the beliefs I have? Like you know, like, oh, it has to be hard, I can't be athletic.

Molly Sanders: 42:11

I'll never be athletic. I'm not athletic is actually the one I am not.

Amber Howard: 42:16

Yeah.

Amber Howard: 42:17

So how could I ever, with that running in the background, Well, I remember, like getting that I was like when I started running with Lisa our friends, when I started running with Lisa, like getting, oh, I'm a runner, like I'm a runner now, and I'm a runner that means I'm an athlete, because I think I too had that kind of. You know, I played rugby, I did, but I was never the athletic person at any point in my life. And really getting like we can create, you know, and it's about creating new beliefs, right? I met this woman once who wanted to run. She wasn't a runner and she's like I'm a runner and runners run. And she just kept enforcing and writing that affirmation out and speaking it and taking you know, I'm a runner and runners run. Well, what are the actions of a runner Like?

Amber Howard: 43:00

if I'm a runner, they run.

Molly Sanders: 43:01

Yeah.

Amber Howard: 43:01

So I'm going to go run right and maybe run for five minutes today in an hour tour or whatever it is, but I'm a runner and runners run right. Like that we're not. I mean, I think this is one of the most fundamental commitments that we have. That's a shared commitment is that people are never stuck.

Molly Sanders: 43:16

Yeah, with anything.

Amber Howard: 43:17

Anything ever, yeah, yeah. So, while the introspective wellness course is again, by the time you listen to this recording, they will have dropped and we'll be sharing the links to how to get the free introduction to introspective wellness course and find out.

Molly Sanders: 43:33

You know, you get through some of those, you know, dig it into some of those layers. So if this is something you're like, well, I don't know how to have to do that.

Amber Howard: 43:41

Molly's going to tell you. Molly.

Molly Sanders: 43:43

Yeah, I'm going to tell you the free intro.

Amber Howard: 43:46

Absolutely, and then you'll be able to find out more information about the Beyond Food program and what that could offer you and your own personal journey around health and wellbeing. And, molly, I'm just so proud, like you know the journey that you've been on watching you, you know, one of my greatest, like the things that I'm out to be in life the most, is kangaroo, and like someone who is, you know, aligned in what I say and what I do and what I think, and I'm not I'm not that all the time and I don't know that any human being is but like that's one of the you know you have a lot of integrity around, being someone who lives your life as a demonstration of the values that you have. And so just love you so much, so proud of you, and the team Can't wait for the launch and just thank you so much for being here and sharing yourself with us.

Molly Sanders: 44:31

Yeah, thanks for giving me the space of a platform, a podium to to tell my, tell my thoughts, and I think this is really this is such a good conversation and I can't wait for our next one. I know.

Amber Howard: 44:46

So you'll stay tuned. Molly and I are going to be back, probably with the broader team, but more to come on that in the future and be sure to check out in the links how to get ahold of Molly and her team and find out all about introspective wellness and you know or anything, or anything really. She loves dogs and big for mama over here and yeah, life and Bali and all of the good stuff.

Molly Sanders: 45:11

So anyway any of the above.

Amber Howard: 45:13

Thank you for joining us and listening to this conversation and, if you know, we look forward to seeing you next week. Bye, bye.

Jackie Haigh: 45:22

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out conversations that matter podcastcom.