Episode 95 - Dr. Forcina's Triumph: A Study in Resilience and Commitment

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Conversations that Matter with your host, amber Howard. Each week, amber dances, in conversation with inspirational leaders, out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experience of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now here's your host.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Welcome back everyone. Welcome back to the Conversations that Matter podcast with your host, Amber Howard. I'm super excited to be here with you all today and I really am honored to have on the show Dr Salvatore Forcina. Dr Forcina is a first generation immigrant to the United States, a former surgeon and author of the book the American Doctor. He rose from humble beginnings in Italy to become a much admired surgeon and is committed that all people stay resilient and hopeful, no matter what the circumstances they face in life. Dr Forcina, it's so great to have you on the show. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 3: 1:05

Thank you very much. Thank you, my honor.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Yeah, so good. So you're in New Jersey, I'm in Bali. We're kind of on different sides of the world. It's your evening, my morning, yes, yeah, we get to thank. Thanks to technology, we get to connect and have this amazing conversation and talk about the things that you're committed to. And where I'd love to start is how did you get to where you are today? What has that journey been like for you?

Speaker 3: 1:35

Well, during World War II, in Italy and in between Roman Naples and that area was really devastated during the war, there was family that suffered the misery, the hunger, lack of job. So that's why my father, in 1947, went to Argentina, thinking that, being at the end of the war, there was not going to be any more war there and it looked for a bigger, bigger, better future for me and my brother. We went to Argentina. My father went in 1947. My mother, myself and my brother we went in 1949, went to Argentina. So I was eight years old and my brother was less than two years old.

Speaker 3: 2:32

So it was no easy after leaving the country where you had your roots, your family, but there was such a misery that you end up being at the end of the world at that time, going to Argentina in which you were a foreigner. Again, there you were. The prejudice exists as a human being. I was a child, I was young and you had to adapt yourself and you had to be very careful how you behave. I learned that very early because you cannot step in somebody's toes because you're the foreigner there. So it was no easy. It was a life in which I don't have a goal. Really I was eight years old, my father was a worker and he tried to. He read all his life, but he was no ever. He only did the second grade, maybe third grade, because the family were big families and at that time everybody had to be trained to support the family with the animals and this and that Life in some way very primitive at that time. And so my father kept insisting that I had to study. And of course, when you are eight years old, you're not thinking about study, you just want to be with the other kids kicking a ball that we have improvised, with a sock in which a play, middle of the street, the dirty street in which there was no asphalt. And so that's the way I grew up. My father kept insisting, kept talking to me.

Speaker 3: 4:48

So eventually, one day, not too far away from my parents' house, there was a church and some priests came to preach there, and they were. I was still going around, I was maybe 10 years old and I was going around and he was showing a picture of the school in which they have a horse, they have a kid jumping in the small creek there playing soccer, football, and then so on. And so I didn't have anything of that. So I told my father that I like to go to that school. So of course, my father saw heaven with that because he said, well, maybe he's going to do something, he's going to open his eyes or whatever. So, anyhow, I went to the school close to Buenos Aires was 300 kilometers far away from my parents and there was a boarding school. I was 11 years old and I saw my parents once a year.

Speaker 3: 5:55

This was a very dramatic thing for me. I suffered a lot. There was a lot of discipline. You see what happened at that time. I worked with the false notion I was a child, I was 11 years old, I was a false notion that a good time play soccer, have a good time. But we realized that the main thing was to study and to pray, because they were priests.

Speaker 3: 6:29

So this was in the beginning, was hell for me. It was very difficult and I want to tell you that when I went there I was a little wild. I was a little wild as a child, but when I left, seven years after, my character had changed. The discipline had made me timid, shy, introverted, scared of being facing people, talking to people. I was completely so. My father saw that, and so that's why I left that school, and eventually I went for two years. But I had to. You see, the problem was that school was not recognized by the Argentina government, so I had to take an exam in order to two years' exams in order to go to the third grade, secondary grade, and so I had to repeat one year.

Speaker 2: 7:41

Dr Fritina, before you keep going, because you're a great storyteller and I love hearing what you're saying. So I just got back from being in New Zealand for two weeks visiting my father, which is where I was born. So I share your journey of being an immigrant. I was born in New Zealand. Both my parents weren't. I immigrated to Canada when I was 10. So I'm so with you going to a new place and being a foreigner and feeling like you have to fit in and desperately wanting to belong. What I wanted to touch on and what you were sharing is, you know, we spent a lot of time over the last two weeks.

Speaker 2: 8:16

My grandfather was in the Royal British Navy, served during World War II, and we spent a lot of time talking about just the trauma, and you know, I know that you would you get this as being a surgeon and a doctor and your own experiences that you've shared with me.

Speaker 2: 8:31

Now, like for so many people who lived through World War II, regardless of whether they served or not, right, like you know, especially. But my dad talked a lot about what it was like for them as children with my grandfather who had. So you know, we now call it post traumatic stress disorder. We have language, but back then, back then, there was no language for it, it was just blank stare. You know, the hundred mile stare, like the thousand yard stare or whatever they called it. Like, you know, just like that, those experiences of either participating actively in the war or living through war torn parts of Europe and the world was so impactful for people's lives and I think you know I left those conversations with my dad feeling like I don't know how any family that lived through World War II, regardless of whether they served or not, couldn't have been traumatized, and then like the inability to talk about what your experiences were, because that's we didn't do that then, right, as on average for the most people they didn't talk about their feelings or their emotions, especially men. Yeah, Right.

Speaker 3: 9:41

So I just I'm glad, I'm glad you, you are talking about that. I can tell you my I learned now, looking back, my father had a post-traumatic syndrome. He suffered that and then. So what happened was that he was during the war. He was in the island road that is under was Italian possession at the time. And so what happened? And the Italian had the battery there. It was close to Turkey and the British fleet was constantly bombarding that area.

Speaker 3: 10:23

And so my father used to tell me I remember, or I was a child, that he was, first of all, when he was doing the duty of guard he had to, he was so exhausted because they hardly slept, because constant there were constant bombardment. And so what happened? The Italian soldier has some sort of coat that was like a wall, but no smooth wall, and with the drizzling, no rain, but constant, you mean the drizzling close to the ocean that coat became like a steel garment. And so what happened? That my father used to tell me that he was so exhausted that he had a handkerchief and he used to go to a small creek coming from the top of the mountain where the water was like ice, and he used to wash his face and put the handkerchief around his neck in order to work up, because the danger was he was caught sleeping or whatever. If he was stuck, they would have called Marshall him.

Speaker 3: 11:44

And so when that didn't work, when that didn't work, he removed his helmet and he banged his head against the tree. Oh my, so so now? My father was his brother during the war Marine, and his brother-in-law. His father, was missed for many, many months. They didn't know if he was captured by the German, taken back to Germany to work or whatever. And so those families, they suffered tremendously, tremendously. No matter, war is no good, war is just destroy, destroy families, destroy the cycle of the people.

Speaker 2: 12:40

Well, thank you for sharing all of that, and you know, I'm just. I mean, it doesn't matter what side of the war you're on, right, I mean history tells us that there are winners and losers.

Speaker 1: 12:49

We know.

Speaker 3: 12:50

I know that there are just human beings. Yeah, there's.

Speaker 2: 12:54

There are just human beings that are doing what they think is the right thing given the circumstances. You know, I know you talk a lot about the circumstances that we deal with in life and how do we overcome those, but I'm just really present in this moment to Ukraine and Russia and here we go again. Another generation of adults and children who are going through that set of circumstances, who are living through war, and then how's that gonna impact their future and their identities and their experience of life, and all of that, so yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:29

The children, the children. What are those separated from the parents? I can tell you, because I was separated from my parents, but I was not separated by force. Those children now in Ukraine or whatever, okay, Somebody were taken away.

Speaker 2: 13:51

Well, and you talk about one of the things that we share in comment is like a love of talking about resilience right, and from the work I do in resilience, we know that the degree of control you feel over the change, right Like you're dealing with challenging circumstances, the degree of control that you feel that you have over those circumstances really impacts your ability to be able to manage them right.

Speaker 2: 14:17

So for you, you were separated from your parents because you went to school and it was challenging, it was difficult but, you know, and you didn't have necessarily control either, but it was, to your point, different from being kind of forced away or ripped away through war and taken away from your parents. And you know, and you can only imagine the hopelessness that those children feel.

Speaker 3: 14:42

Sure, sure, sure, yeah, yeah it was. My experience was a traumatic experience, but compared with the, compared to those kids, my experience was not so bad really. But you know, you have to compare yourself. This is happening in 1952, you know, and so, anyhow.

Speaker 3: 15:07

So the thing is that, like I say, talking about resilience, my this, that school gave me gradually the desire to be somebody, because you know all my friends, the kids, when I went to secondary school, they were all the son of the well-off people the lawyer, doctor, stanzier, people, a lot of land with the cows. I was the son of immigrant. They have nothing. I wore all the time the same jacket because we don't have it, we don't have it, and then and then, so, anyhow. So I noticed that those two years that I was in the private school, public school, of course, the discipline compared with the discipline, spartan discipline that I had with the priest here was something. But I noticed that the teachers first of all the desire to be somebody. So, but I knew from the after a while that for me to succeed I had to be a teacher, I had to work double than the other.

Speaker 3: 16:31

And that desire to succeed and study hard and to be somebody to get out of that hole. I wasn't a hole. I wasn't a hole. My life was in a hole and I tried to get out of the hole and you know, I didn't have the mean, I didn't have the leather, I didn't have the right shoes, I didn't have gloves, I didn't have nothing to climb, so anyhow. So that was noticed. I was noticed by my teachers because all the other, all the many of the other student colleague of mine, they were joking with the teacher or whatever, because their parents were in French, people in the town they were. So what happened was that they noticed when they called me, I knew my subject and I did very well in school, and so I noticed that they already start to feel, that I start to feel in minor degree I would start to be somebody. You know, psychologically already I start to feel. Well, that's one way to start. I had a long way to climb, climb that in Malaya mountain, but it's one way to start.

Speaker 3: 17:53

And that was between my father remembering when my father seeing my parents the sacrifice they had to do in the daily life. You know, my parents were in Argentina for 30 years. They went there when they were young and you know what, after 30 years they left Argentina and because the revolution came, the inflation came wherever they have a save. In 30 years they lost overnight. So they were worse off than when they were there because at least when they went there they were young. Now, 30 years after you know he says so, he was saying it was no easy situation. It was no easy situation.

Speaker 2: 18:43

Wow you talk about. You know, your parents seem to me to be very brave and courageous people. You know like it takes something to figure out. They were simple people.

Speaker 3: 18:54

They were simple people. They were simple people, but you know what? They had common sense. They had common sense. Nothing so sophisticated, but they were practical people.

Speaker 2: 19:09

It's really good. You talk about crawling out of that hole and you know like that time you spent at the boarding school, helping you become more resilient and more focused and disciplined. You know all of those early childhood experiences that you had, whether it was emigrating to Argentina or being separated from your parents going to the boarding school. They all culminated in you becoming the man that you are today, someone who you know became a surgeon and, like.

Speaker 2: 19:47

I think one of the biggest things that I've started to learn in my life is, you know, if, if I can to look for the gift in the circumstances and like not like it's the truth, but what if there was always a gift in the circumstances? So, no matter what happens to me in my life, the things that I want, the things that I don't want you know what is, what is the gift there. You know, and I can only imagine how many people's lives that you've touched and the difference that you've made in your career as a surgeon and now as an author and I'd love to talk a little bit about the book as well but and and of course, we might want people to not have to go through challenging circumstances, but you know you've, really you are someone who took those circumstances and turn them into an extraordinary life of contribution and service to others, so I really just want to acknowledge you for that.

Speaker 3: 20:47

Thank you, I appreciate that. I just want to add a little bit more. Yeah, my life. Yes, please, because what? What happened when I finished? First of all, when I started in Argentina, my parents couldn't afford to buy books for me.

Speaker 1: 21:02

So what happened?

Speaker 3: 21:03

we were sharing a house. It was an old Spanish colonial house with many rooms, and we were sharing the room with like another 10 or 12 students. And so what happened? But, like I said before, I was the son of the immigrant, without nothing. And the old married friends, they were well off family, well off family. But you know, I'm going to tell you a thing I never was envious of anybody. I never was envious anybody. I knew that for me to get out of that hole I had to work hard. So what happened was those colleagues of mine, la Plata University. La Plata is close to Buenos Aires, so in Argentina. So what happened? When Friday came, the weekend, friend, those people, they used to my friend, they used to go to Buenos Aires to have a good time. They had the money, they had the. You know, they were young, you know. So that was the time when I used their books, I used their books and I used their books and make the notes and this and that.

Speaker 3: 22:10

So anyhow, eventually, after seven years of medical school medical, I graduated and I want to go to Italy to specialize. But when I arrived to Italy, I start to see the environment is no different than that time for me. I was in the summertime in the beach where my parents used to live. The town, scowri, distant member of the family, saw me, knew about me and he says, sal, what are you doing here? You have to come to the United States. It's the place to be. Well, you know. That opened my eyes, you know. And so what happened? I wrote to my family that was in Canada Canada, new York and they saw, they welcomed me. So I came to the United States. Now prepare yourself, first of all. I arrived. I was 28 years old. I didn't speak a word of English. I didn't speak a word of English. My degree was not recognized in the United States.

Speaker 3: 23:26

I was no doctor here and eventually I find out the exams, the multiple choices. I was 28 years old. I didn't know what multiple choice was, so now this was hell for me we're talking about nightmare because I was a very responsible person. So I had to take an exam, given once or twice a year to all foreign graduate or American graduate outside the United States, and after that was a tremendous exam and after you pass that exam you can practice. That allows you to apply to a special residence program, and I did that for surgery. So of course, I had to go to New York University. I had to borrow money for my uncle and aunt, cousin, and then, because I had to learn English, I had to familiarize myself with the multiple choices. So this was another hurdle I had to go through. That's amazing. Yeah, that was a special surgery and that was five years, five years. And of course, after finish and you apply, you want to practice. Nobody knows you, so nobody knows you.

Speaker 3: 25:05

Another dilemma, another thing was no easy to get out of the hole, like I was saying so now. So I was around the hospital all the time. Go around, you get frustrated too, because you see what happened. I was covered in the emergency room and the emergency room. Most of those emergency room patients. They were complicated cases but I like the challenge, complicated. But there was no insurance. They didn't have insurance and I had to support my family. I had to pay my, my practice and the other expenses. So it was no easy in the beginning, until one day the chief of surgery knee help. So they saw me, they called me and I went to, I went to, I went to help and so I guess from that day on I guess he saw something. He saw something that they that they they was ever again.

Speaker 3: 26:10

And from there, from that day on, I was helping all the time. Now, what happened? That when he used to go on vacation he was not available, I started to cover him, cover him his practice. Of course this was no easy for the referring doctor because in the beginning they say who is this guy with an accent, you know? So I had to. But the nurses well, the nurses helped me. The nurses helped me a lot because they they knew that I was available all the time. I respected the nurses. They took care of the patient and they saw that and they saw that there was not too many complications. So I can tell you a funny story.

Speaker 3: 26:57

One of the one day my office was notified for me to go to see a patient of this, the director of the hospital. But he was, he was, he was on vacation. So I went to see this gentleman and then I introduced myself. And you know what, it doesn't require too much common sense. When I went there, I saw there was a barrier between him and me. There was. I knew there was something there, you know. So, anyhow, I introduced myself, I explained everything. I I had reviewed the x-rays, the studies, whatever. I examined him and I didn't know that he has a very infected gallbladder.

Speaker 1: 27:46

And the gallbladder was.

Speaker 3: 27:48

He was spiking fever and that's very dangerous because the infection can go into the circulation and and producing shock, it's shut down the organs, the kidney, the heart, the brain, whatever. So, anyhow, I said I gave my recommendation and of course he said okay, dr Fosina, let me talk to my family, like you know. So, anyhow. So I was worried, I was worried about him. So, and the following morning, before I went to the operating room, the first thing I did, I went to see him and when I arrived he said good morning, dr Fosina, this is my wife, this is my daughter. The attitude had changed dramatically from the day before. So he said Dr Fosina, when are we going to do the surgery? I said well, let me schedule, let me. I went to the head nurse. I said what, joanne? What happened? Oh, he said, since you left yesterday, he, anybody that was walking around and went into the room where he was.

Speaker 2: 28:54

They were asking, he was asking all about you, and of course, I had good reputation, you know, and so that's one way to you know well, clearly, your patients loved you because you're so dedicated and committed to them, right, and I think that, like it's like you talk about the gifts of the, the circumstances, right, I think the circumstances that you went through in life caused you to be someone who really cares about people. And? And?

Speaker 3: 29:24

Yes, because I know the other side. Yeah, I wasn't the other side.

Speaker 2: 29:31

Yes, so when you, when you crawl out of a hole I think you know because I wouldn't put it that way in my own life, but I'm pretty sure I've crawled out of a few holes in my lifetime and and when, when you're someone who's crawled out of a hole, I think you have a tendency to not want to see other people in holes, right Like you you want to.

Speaker 1: 29:52

You either want to help them.

Speaker 2: 29:53

help them get out of the hole or help them not get into the hole In the first place, like I think that's part of it.

Speaker 3: 30:00

Yeah, improve their life. Yeah, because you cannot be selfish. I mean, you see a child crossing the street and a car is coming. What are you going to be indifferent? You have to hear, you have to go. Stop the car.

Speaker 2: 30:15

That's a great way of putting it.

Speaker 3: 30:17

Well, you see, as a human being, that we care you have to care. How can you be indifferent? Even the animal? They don't act in that way.

Speaker 2: 30:31

Yes, it's beautiful, dr Forchina. Talk to me a little bit about the book. So the book's called the American Doctor. I believe it came out in March of this year, is that right?

Speaker 3: 30:42

Yes.

Speaker 2: 30:42

Yeah, what's the book?

Speaker 3: 30:44

about.

Speaker 3: 30:45

Well, let me tell you this. The first of all, why the American doctor the American doctor came about? Because, first of all, when my father, I remember, when my father was young, 19, 20, 19,. At that time, you know, there was a small area, that the area where he lived. They were most of the people, they were farmers and there was no industry. So they were the teacher, the lawyer or the priest, and in the evening, during the summertime, with the main road, people walk to have a gelato or coffee or whatever you know. So what happened was that at that time the people show respect and the poor people removed their hat, bend their head and say doctor, bonacera, doctor. So that was one thing. The other thing was, you know, my parents. My father died when he was 96 years old, 99 and a half, 99 and a half and my mother was 95. So what happened?

Speaker 3: 32:04

One day I received a call from the lady taking care of my parents, my mother. She had a stroke, suffered a stroke and was taken to the hospital close by. And so, of course, right away, my wife arranged for me to go to Italy and when I arrived there, my poor mother was paralyzed one side. She was placed in a room in which another lady was coughing her lung out. She got pneumonia, okay. So now, and I used to go see that the care there was very poor care. Over there is a socialized system. They just give an idea of the windows. They don't have a screen. They were fly all over because they had to leave the window open very into the base, so anyhow. So one day after lunch I used to go to see my mother in the morning and then the afternoon after lunch. One day after lunch I went there and what happened? The intravenous fluid that my mother was getting the poor lady was paralyzed, couldn't move, infiltrated, swallowed up and the sheet was all wet. So I called the nurse and I say, told them about the problem and they said, yeah, we'll take care, we'll take care. You know, I was anxious it's my mother, okay, and wait, wait, wait. So I took care of the problem, solved the problem myself. So of course, when the nurse came, wow, she jumped on me like, wow, I need that. I was already up to here with the thing going on, the thing. I seen why we have such an argument. I was not sure the words, so anyhow. So eventually she left. After a while, a doctor came and he was very apologetic, and from that day on, they used to say he's the American doctor, he's the American doctor, he's going to come, now he's here, and so that's the American doctor. It's a great story Now, how the book came about.

Speaker 3: 34:32

The book came about because when I started my practice, we were young with my wife, and we used to go to different places. The invite us and there were different people there. There were regular people, there were other doctors, especially other professionals, there were politicians, and so what happened was that then we start to talk like I'm talking to you, explain anything, and so some of them, they were surprised, and now they say wow, because the fact for Argentina, for Italy, went to Argentina, argentina, come here, I speak English, so all the things that you have to go through. So what happened? More than one person say that's the fortune. You should write down this, because this is a can be in front of somebody else, to be better, to improve, and you know what at that time, I'm not an author, I want to do my specialty, whatever I did.

Speaker 3: 35:39

Well, I mean, I was trained too, and so I needed to pay attention to that. But you know what, after more than almost 45, 40 years of practicing, when I retire? I retire now. I am my daughter house in New Jersey, north New Jersey, but I live in Florida. Good weather there. So what happened was that? When I was there I start to think about?

Speaker 1: 36:13

I said I have more time.

Speaker 3: 36:15

I start to think about and I start to start to write a few things and eventually I sent it to my daughter and my daughter said darling, that's beautiful there, keep going, keep going, keep going. So eventually I have a granddaughter, that's a matter of fact. Today she's her birthday, eight years old, she's a little little. So what happened was that I say you know what? I want to write a memoir about my life, how it came about, how I came to this country, all the things I went through, because I will. I'm not going to be around forever. I'm 82 years old now and when she will be in her teenager years, she perhaps she's going to have problems like anybody else, and maybe I can prevent for her to make any bad decisions or whatever. And maybe maybe she, one night that she's down, whatever, pick it up this book and read one chapter or whatever, and maybe can be therapeutic for her. And that's the purpose of the book.

Speaker 2: 37:35

You're talking about the power of inspiration, and you know, I know, that this is something that you talk about, right the people that inspired you to move forward in your life and get through the hard times, and the importance like you being an inspiration to others, right Whether it's your children or your coworkers or your patients. Anyone who's met you and you know unknows your story and how you got to be where you are today. Couldn't help but be inspired by your resilience and your fortitude and your compassion and your caring for people, Dr Furchina, who were some of your early inspirations Like, who inspired you on the journey to get to where you are today in life. You know what you know what.

Speaker 3: 38:17

The sad part, you know what? I never have a guide. I was on my own and then my parents tried to help me, but they were not related to me, they were not related to the field, they were nothing. My life. I compare my life like going through a tunnel. In the tunnel, at the end of the tunnel, there is a dim light there at the end, and as I arrived to that end, I read that there's a sign that said dead end. That was my life. I had to do everything, like it is more, both in the middle of the ocean, the mercy of the wind. I didn't see a coast, I didn't see nothing or the horizon, and so you had the mercy. That's been my life, because you see what happened. I had you.

Speaker 3: 39:14

At that time, the mentality was for us that the how did you think you're going to become a doctor one day? There was the impossible thing. You just went day by day. Here you go to college and already you plan what you're going to be. You got the guidance. They instruct you. They say I had none of that. I had none of that. The only inspiration I had was the word that my father used to tell me you had to become somebody in life and eventually, gradually, gradually, I woke up that dream and I start to learn that it was no easy. Many, many, I can tell you many, many times I was ready to quit, many, many, many times.

Speaker 2: 40:18

You know it's interesting when we think about. You know where inspiration comes from, right, and maybe the word's not inspiration, maybe it's motivation. You know what motivates us to move beyond the circumstances of our childhood or our life. For you, what I can hear is you were really motivated by your father and you know, wanting to be someone and wanting to make him proud and wanting to be someone of contribution. For me, my motivation to get out of that hole was my kids, my children at a very young age and I wanted to make a better life for them than the one that I had born and you know, I brought them into and. But the inspiration or the motivation doesn't always come from an outside person. You know, like, or maybe sometimes the motivation, the inspiration, comes from the circumstances themselves. Dr Fertina, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Speaker 3: 41:14

I feel like I could talk to you.

Speaker 2: 41:16

I feel like I could sit by a fire and talk to you forever and just thank you for being someone who cares about others wants to be an inspiration who understands the power of inspiration for others and whose life has really been in service of something much larger than yourself. It's such a pleasure to meet you.

Speaker 3: 41:35

My pleasure. Thank you very much and you have a good day, or no day, or night, it is day here. I see you look a little tired to me, like you didn't sleep well or whatever. You're going to put that doctor checkup over Zoom.

Speaker 2: 41:55

It is day for me and maybe just need another coffee or some water or breakfast. Anyway, for those of you listening to the show, you can find out how to connect with Dr Fertina and get a copy of his book the American Doctor in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining this show.

Speaker 3: 42:10

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Thank you.