Episode 103 - Navigating the Complexities of AI and Personal Growth with Joey Lowery

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Conversations that Matter with your host, amber Howard. Each week, amber dances, in conversation with inspirational leaders, out to make a difference for what matters most to people. She brings you incredible guests who share their real life experience of being a leader and what it looks like to live a truly created life of service to others. And now here's your host.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Welcome back everyone. Welcome back to the Conversations that Matter podcast. This morning I am very excited to have Joey Lowry on the show. Joey is the founder of MediaShark, a digital marketing expert and speaker. Joey loves nothing more than helping people push through to the next level in their business, and his commitment for himself and others is to be better today than he was yesterday and to grow 1% more today so he can be better tomorrow. Joey, thank you so much for being on the show with us today.

Speaker 3: 0:56

Absolutely. I'm excited to be here and thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Yeah, it's great. So talk to me. How did you get to today? I'm like we were just talking before we jumped on about this very cool office. If you could just see where Joey's sitting, surrounded by all of these dinosaurs and the company MediaShark. How did your journey wind you up where you are in life today?

Speaker 3: 1:17

Oh man, what a journey it's been. Yeah, so, honestly, I was just a normal kid from the Midwest, to be transparent just grew up. I did have kind of a unique story. We can get to with some family stuff that I went through at a young age. But, to be transparent with you, moved to Arizona and I started working in this tech company and it was great, it was awesome. Just, you know, time to take a jump and I had some lot of family in California at the time. So I was like, no, I don't really want to be too close to family, but at the same time I want to get close enough where I can drive to see him but they can't drive to see. Well, they can drive to see me, but they can't just show up. So I actually started working in tech and I was always good in sales. I'd never really, you know, I didn't go to college, I didn't go to a world background in tech, just I was good at sales.

Speaker 3: 1:57

So got a really great job in digital marketing, worked for this company for about two to three months or two to three years, and then all of a sudden we started losing clients and it got to be the point as a highly commissioned salesperson, I was shooting, you know, obviously affecting my paychecks, affecting my livelihood, but at the same time, you know, you become friends with your clients. And so you know, I'm kind of losing friends, if you want to call it and get to the point where I'm like you know what I'm going to put on this red cape in my mind and try to help this company figure out why we're losing these clients. And I found out we had a big ethical in my opinion, very ethical issue, and also our dashboards are what we'd give our clients, same thing with our, you know, google Analytics, all this stuff that you know we're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on advertising, you know, and some of the clients that's that's their, you know, maybe even it's like three to four thousand a month, that's their livelihood. You know they're really putting money towards something to get a benefit out of it to, you know, gain more sales and leads to grow their business, and so, obviously, losing clients. Because there was a discrepancy between the two, between what Google was saying, what we're saying, and so, finally, I'm like you know what I'm going to dive into all this stuff and at the time we would go to these shows called Digital Summits, and a Digital Summits was just a cool marketing conference across the United States that at the time, the company participated in for us to gain leads, you know, to meet business owners and marketers.

Speaker 3: 3:08

Well, I was in Raleigh, north Carolina, and I actually, finally, one night after with well, with some liquid courage, I'd say, actually brought up the issues, you know, to one of the other guys that I worked with and I was by far the youngest on the team and you know I wasn't married, don't have kids, things like that. So there was really no it's called things holding me down and maybe if I was in that situation, I'd probably be a little bit more hesitant to, let's say, jump down the path of, hey, here's what we're doing wrong and you know you guys want to fix this. Turns out can't say I was right. Also, can't say I was wrong but I was fired on the spot the next day. So, yeah, and at that conference.

Speaker 3: 3:47

And so actually, you know, when you're traveling, you know I was a highly commissioned sales person doing very well and just all of a sudden you're just cut off, you know, and I decided, you know, I'm going to, kind of out of spite, create a company called Media Shark, and the reason I named it Media Shark was because their company one who named who is was named after an animal and I thought what could eat that animal?

Speaker 3: 4:06

So the shark could. And so, out of spite, a little bit more not even as a joke I just I didn't think it was going to really work and take off. And then, not that I doubted myself, but it was just like 28 years old and you know what do I know about business? And the next thing, you know, within about two years, we were actually I was actually back in that same conference in Raleigh, north Carolina, actually speaking on stage on digital marketing and had a booth in the same area that we had a booth as a, you know, as an employee. So it's been definitely a journey, we'll call it, but I'm really big into the aspect of, you know, transparency and helping businesses. People, you know, get passed a lot, of, a lot of hurdles they run into.

Speaker 2: 4:48

Well, one. I acknowledge I think it takes a lot of courage. You know, regardless of your circumstances and whether you have kids or a family, or you know, understand that those financial pressures can sometimes impact what we see as an opportunity or the actions that we take. But you know, even as a 28 year old who has a lifestyle and a life and things that they're up to in the world, it takes a lot of courage to stand up for something and say, well, hold on a second, here, there's something not working, and want to be a contribution. Right, because that's what I hear and what you were saying is you wanted to contribute to the company and to the clients and I think it takes a lot of courage to be the person who's going to do that, and I don't believe in accidents or coincidences, so you know that they weren't receptive. You know who knows how long you would have stayed there. You know kind of investing in your own ideas and your own business and creating media shark. So I just acknowledge you for being someone who has that kind of courage.

Speaker 2: 5:51

And the other thing I really hear is integrity. So I think you know when we are operating businesses and you know especially services and you know, taking people's money and offering a service in exchange for that. I think it's important that we are, you know, integrates with how we spend their money and the services that we provide, and I can tell from you know, the growth in your business. I think success leaves clues, as one of my mentors would say, and you know that success is indicative of the integrity that you bring to work with the clients.

Speaker 3: 6:27

Yeah, and that's the one that's like that. You know, I think sometimes we, as I'm going to say, we as people and I don't want to say just business owners necessarily, but just us as people I think we kind of get this integrity thing diluted a little bit because of loyalty and I think a lot of times we put into issues of sticking up for family members, sticking up for, you know, our jobs and justifying what we're doing, maybe even sometimes justifying our unhappiness through, you know, what we're doing in our life, through work and, you know, family, and a lot of times too, I don't think necessarily we're honest with ourselves and I don't know and, to be transparent with you, I don't really know if I would have cared as much about the issues if I wasn't losing the clients. You know, because, again, sometimes you know, you think in the back of your mind you're like, hey, this business, and you know, like I said, I can't say 100% if they were right or wrong, I definitely can say I was fired. So you know, there's that aspect. But you know, I do think there was something there that you know if I would have trusted the business enough that I would think that they were doing the right thing, and I think there was some guys on the team that also knew it as well.

Speaker 3: 7:35

And the reason I brought the you know, the kid and the marriage thing was because you know pretty much everybody on the team was about five to seven years older minimum, and you know we're much more established. So I kind of use that as an excuse of why maybe they didn't want to push and shake the boat too much. We had a very narcissistic leader, you want to call it, in the situation. So there was a lot of signs that pointed to okay, not necessarily that they were doing a whole bunch of unethical things, but you know it got very bottlenecked and I think that's one of those things we have to watch out for. You know, just as people it's like, are we bottlenecking ourselves in certain issues, whether it's with family, jobs, and you know even our personal life, into our opinions and how we act, you know. And so definitely an interesting concept for sure.

Speaker 2: 8:19

You talk about being right. Really good lesson. Once from a leader in my social like in a course that I was taking, I was being right righteous about something and she said you know, you can be right without making other people wrong. And I was like a little bit of a slap ups at the back of the head. I was like, yeah, you can like you know. You can know in your gut, you know that's something and not like it's a truth. I'm not someone who really operates like there are truths in the world but yeah, like you can know for you anyway that something's right.

Speaker 3: 8:54

But I think there's this, yeah, and I think there's this beauty of it. I think that we can't ignore this in the aspect of there's. You walk into a room and you can feel things. You can feel someone look at you wrong. You can feel happiness, you can see that this person like you ever walk into a room and you're just like I'm going to be friends with this person.

Speaker 3: 9:10

And like you know them, you know, so there's there's just this aspect of like you know, I believe there's this underlying situation that's always happening.

Speaker 3: 9:19

And I think, going back to the you know being right and tearing people down, I think you know that's where you know you have to really, really dive into yourself and be like you know where's. Where am I winning and where am I helping. And it's just so funny too, cause it's like if we really took the aspect I mean, we got Christmas right around the corner how much more happier is everybody to give a gift and they are to receive it? And yet we turn around and we're like I'm going to prove you wrong and I'm going to, you know, show you that I am, I am this, I am that, you know, and you are wrong, kind of thing.

Speaker 3: 9:48

And it's like we find our best moments are most truthful and, more I'd say, even most enjoyable moments, usually when we're I mean honestly a servant to somebody else. You know, let alone having and I don't mean necessarily serving someone with. You know, if someone's wrong about something, we definitely should address it. But you know, at the same time, it's like you know how humble are you in the way that you move forward and in progression.

Speaker 2: 10:13

I love that inquiry. How humble are you. So I am curious, cause you brought it up kind of in your introduction, joey, when you talked about how did you get here?

Speaker 2: 10:21

And I do know from looking on your, your, your social networks, about your personal involvement with the innocence projects, and I don't know if that's what you were alluding, alluding to when you talked about the family circumstance and I did have it as like maybe if it comes out to talk about, but how much do you think and I'll let you share about the exact circumstance, but inside of this question, how much do you think that that happening in your, in your early childhood and in your family impacted how you do business and how you interact in the world?

Speaker 3: 10:56

I'd say quite a bit and let for the listeners here. So my dad served 10 years for being wrongfully convicted, so he was served in the military. It was pretty young, I think was like 22 to maybe 22, 23 so in the army and basically you can go and read a story if you look up Eddie Lowry in the innocence project and even get looking up on YouTube. Weirdly enough there's a golfer also named Eddie Lowry. So if you find the golfer, that's not him, even though he loves. But yeah. So basically he hit a parkour one night and it was leaving leaving the base, going to get cigarettes, I believe, doing something like that and on the way back or on the way there he hit this parkour. He is Hispanic and Basically the whole situation turned into definitely a race situation for sure.

Speaker 3: 11:41

On top of that, you know he was young and he did pass the sobriety test. Everything went good. They let him go that night and there was a rape that happened within about 45 minutes, so I believe an hour and a half of him hitting this parkour. So really, I mean timing was everything. There had nothing to do. He had no connection, obviously, to the case itself or the you know the crime. On top of that, you know, to go into a little depth, the lady she, I think, police, she was in her 60s with the rape case, you know, and all she could do was identify that it was a darker male At the time. And so basically the next day they call him and they say you know, hey, we need to come in and talk to talk to some people. So he thinks it's about you know the wreck, you know, or whatever. So he goes in and next thing, you know, they deny him a lawyer, they hold him for a shoot. I think was like 18, 19 hours Play good cop, bad cop. You know a lot of psychological stuff going on there and then basically they can confer or co-horse him to basically give a false confession. So he actually is one of the main, a very prominent speaker within the false confession cases and you'd be shocked on how often it happens.

Speaker 3: 12:45

Verse First, what we're really aware of, because again, it's a lot of psychological tactics. Especially, you know when you're deprived of your rights. Also, on top of that, you know, deprived of sleep let alone. You know all the called emotional and you know Chemical things going on in your body just being in that, that room and so Goes to trial. He recants it. He actually ends up having a hung jury the first time. Second time they actually get a conviction and he basically sentenced him to life. He gets out and about 1991 96 comes, comes around and of course I'm born after he got out so I didn't experience anything while he was in prison. But he 96 comes out. Megan's Laws, you know, brought out which is it's, it's. I get the point of the law. I didn't from my standpoint. I always tell people I'm like I saw it from an innocent man Side of point of view and I know that with Megan's law it's it's a sex offender law to register and things like that.

Speaker 3: 13:39

And so for every month he'd have to go to the court or, sorry, I believe, the sheriff's office and have to register as a sex offender up until 2001. Some well, the long story, keep things short, but basically let's just say, innocence project finds him, finds out about him. They end up being able to get his DNA tested from that time period turns out he's innocent. No, nothing to the crime. He's proven innocent. The Barry Sheck and Johnny Cochran. Obviously Johnny Cochran worked with OJ Simpson and sheck sort of you know he runs the innocence project, took on his case and they settled in 2010. But now he's a huge advocate. Obviously he's actually just. He just actually stepped down from the board this year but he's been on the board for a shoot, I don't know, five, six years and Speaks on just wrongful convictions, anything he can do to help laws be passed, that support more on the citizen side, anything supporting.

Speaker 3: 14:24

You know us. You know, for example, just recently talked, I think last year on. You know, having a every Deposition filmed what you would think would be obvious. You know just little things like that. So, yeah, when you go to the aspect of all of that, you know, and again, seeing it from a young age to growing up into into high school and college well, let's call it that one year college. But Seeing all that, as you know I'm maturing and growing up I see this guy who's just fighting non-stop for this I mean respectfully, you know, and some people's views it's just, hey, it's out of water. Another bridge, you know you've been convicted. You did. Ten years was almost 20 years since the crime. Why are you fighting this? You know, now I'm wired.

Speaker 3: 15:06

If somebody at church told him, you know, why are you opening up a can of worms to fight this? And I think that really hit him hard. You know this is a lawyer from other church we went to, you know. I just seen his struggle, you know, and I seen how hard he had to push to just prove his innocence, let alone, like you know, be I mean wrongfully, you know compensate our rightfully compensated for being wrongfully convicted. And it's a much more common situation than we realize, I think.

Speaker 3: 15:30

You know, and for me, I just saw a guy that just pushed, pushed, pushed, pushed and he just wouldn't settle, even though he worked at Ford Blue collar nine to five. I mean, my parents were never, would say, wealthy by any means. You know, we vacation to Florida because of time share and floor, and Ford would lay off for two weeks while that, you know, the new assembly plant was resetting for the new cars coming in. So wasn't one of those things that you know, he was just like, oh, I got money, let me just fight this, you know, and I think of myself today.

Speaker 3: 15:56

It's like, you know, he's still in prison, technically at my age, you know. So what am I doing to make the most of my time? Because he was, he didn't have that, so that it's, in the sense of that's affected me a lot in that regard of just perseverance, and Especially when I think of, you know, she called shit hitting the fan. You know, there's nothing I'm running into. That is anything that he went through at this age, let alone the last 10 years, you know so, or the 10, well, within that time period of 10 years, you know, and then also just to keep on going. So it's definitely been an interesting journey, but it's more been. I mean, he's such a strong individual and he's definitely a big blessing in my life and has been a massive influence and Just what he called my business growth, the personal growth and and just a huge inspiration, let alone the community, but also, you know, to the, to our family as well.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Give him how much you love him. I I think it's, you know, it's a, it's a better workability again, you know people will say, well, why fight so hard to clear your name, you know? But I think it's like it's about how we know ourselves and and how we want to be listened to and and heard in the community and Because we, like we, literally live in community in connection with other people, right? So when you know that you're innocent, I think it is hugely important to us to have that be, you know, reflected in the community and in the people around us and that have other people understand that and know that about us. So I really commend your, your father, for everything that he did and the stand that he has taken for other people to who have gone through similar experiences. I think that's really extraordinary.

Speaker 2: 17:39

You mentioned a couple of times not going to college, joey, and I think it's interesting because, you know, one of my favorite books is thinking grow rich, and I know that I know that yes, mr Hill, and and many of the successful people that at that time, when he did his research and wrote that book and even to this day Did not go to college or university and In so much like one of my, my purpose in this planet is that everyone gets to live a created life based on what they authentically want, and I think so much of Actually creating an authentic life is battling against those standards and measurements for success that we inherit from other people, and one of those is you want to be successful, you have to go to college or university, and it's something parents teach their kids with good well meaning. They're not being mean parents.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Yeah, it's like, because that's part of the narrative, right? If you want to be a successful person, this is part of what you have to do, but it's not actually born out. In reality, some of the most successful people in the world did not have a higher education, and some of the hardest working, I mean. We think about other parts of the world outside of North America. I'm living in Bali now. There are some hugely successful people who you know, live it, come from other parts of this planet where, like, that isn't necessarily the To trajectory or pathway to success. So I'd love to hear your, your thoughts on that, and you know from your experience.

Speaker 3: 19:03

Yeah, and the reason I think I'm probably a little bit more vocal about not going to college. I almost feel like it's a badge I get to wear Because of that. You know exactly what you're describing and the one thing that's funny is that, like if we really I was actually doing a podcast about this yesterday If we really think about it, you know everything is set up for you to have a structured life Never to ask too many questions, never to do too many things, maybe to travel once a year. I mean, if you really think about it, we're in such a bottle, from kindergarten to, you know, graduating, to this idea of college, to get married, have kids. You know, basically, whatever work, really it's, it's when it call it has. Napoleon Hill calls it drifting. You know we just your life, and I believe that's the outwitting. The devil is that book, but you know this aspect of just Just hey, if you just do this next thing, you'll be happier and you'll figure it out and you'll make that money. And it's like.

Speaker 3: 19:55

The problem is, if you really think about it and break it down from a quantitative standpoint, there are so many people doing it all doing the same action, expecting the same result, yet that's what we define as insanity. And when you really take a step back and you look at how are diamonds forged, like, how are these people forged that you know didn't have college, like what? What was it? And it truly is adversity. Like you have to be put up against something and test it, and that's how you become diamond is the pressure, and so that's how you become a diamond. And so that's where I think college is one of those biggest mistakes for and I'm not saying it's for, like everybody you know obviously, becoming doctor, lawyer, things like that it has its place 100%. I definitely don't want to go see a doctor is not or has not been to medical school, will call it, no matter how great chat you BT is these days. But but the truth is, honestly, I think we're so hung up on this idea of what we're supposed to become based off of our other people's opinions, and the truth is it's like man, if we could just get clarity on what we really want. The college may not be in that focus. Education may not be in that area. You know, we got a thing, beautiful thing, called YouTube University. That opens a huge opportunity for people. I mean, you shoot, you got 13-year-olds that are making six figures a year or even months sometimes to review, or there's a kid that reviews toys online. So it's like you know if it's a money thing, college, I don't think, is the answer.

Speaker 3: 21:21

What I truly believe our issue is is we're not surrounding ourselves with people that are heard. If you want to grow, surround yourself with people that are growing. If you want to make X amount, surround yourself with people that make two X that amount you know, and you weirdly find yourself in positions where you're growing because of your community. And I think one of the biggest mistakes we can make is all right, we follow this course and it's like man, I just wasn't. It didn't work out. I got this business degree or I did have X degree and maybe my master's or doctorate, and it's just like, just not happy. And I see that all the time, especially when my standpoint. I work with businesses and I get to talk to a lot of unique business owners and some very, very wealthy people and I'm like it's great that you're in that position, but you can tell that the struggle for them was not the same for others, in a sense. And I see other people who are like man. We just we grinded it out and it took off, but it's just a different level of person, and I mean that in the most respectably, because there's a spot for everybody at the table.

Speaker 3: 22:19

I think that's where we have to be careful, because I don't want to say one way is better than the other. I don't mean to say and you know, I'm still learning this too as well but I do definitely see that this average like hey, you got to go to school and you've got to do this, it's like sure, I guess maybe, but I can tell you there's a hundred other people that didn't. And I think that's the beauty of what digital, the digital world's, brought to us is accessibility. I mean, you can connect, you know where we probably would have never met without the digital connection, same thing with the person listening to this podcast. So you know the opportunity to be around people you know, let's say in their ear on video that are doing what you want to do, if not xing amount, a certain amount that you want to do, shoot, you know you can change your herd overnight. So that's really the key, I think.

Speaker 3: 23:02

In my opinion, now it's like hey, instead of focusing on what we are told to do. You know, let's focus on what we want to do and then find people that are doing it and then surround ourselves with those type of people, and I think that's where you're going to find your home run to success, you know, and that's not even saying business success, I mean that's being happy, that's joyful, that's your family success, I mean just the opportunity of what growth and success looks like is, I think, found in the people we surround ourselves, rather than, you know, saying that we went to college and we accomplished x and now we're on this right path, situation which, again, is built on expectations of other people.

Speaker 2: 23:41

I love what you're saying. I think I'm a huge, I love learning. I'm going to be learning until the day I die, but I think that you know there's so many different ways to learn and you know courses you can take in Coursera and so many opportunities for education. If you want to be someone who is learning new things, then you don't. You know, college and university is one way to do that and I think I agree with you. I don't want the, you know, I don't want the surgeon who hasn't gone to medical school operating on me at all.

Speaker 3: 24:08

Right, yeah, that's where I don't want someone to be like well, you said I'm like no, no, no, no, no, no. There's a line here. We're still I don't, I, still I. You know, I don't want to have the artist drawing a mural that has, let's say, never practiced. You know we call it or you know, doesn't have the accreditation that you know for what I'm going to invest time or money into. So there's, there's definitely rules to this, for sure, yeah, and thanks to the lawyers and the Innocence Project.

Speaker 2: 24:36

I mean, I think there's a place for everything, but I think it's the should that we're pointing to this idea that like or this like in order to, you know, coach a lot of people in you know, breaking through that like, in order to have X, Y or Z, I have to do A, b or C in order to be successful in my business. That has to look like this, right, and I think it is so great that we have the digital world that we do now, and especially for I mean for me, I'm so blessed I would you know I still get to work at the university I do back in Canada while living in Bali. That would not have happened before. Covid, right.

Speaker 3: 25:07

So it's not just COVID I was going to say like man, like that's freaking awesome, like literally that's there's your dream right there, and everybody's like man, I want to make X, it's like for what?

Speaker 3: 25:18

You can just move to Bali, and you know because and that's another topic I think so interesting it's like, you know, does money buy happiness? And it's like no, but it's like, but, man, it can allow for freedom, you know for sure, to a point, obviously, but it's like everybody's chasing this dollar value and it's like, oh man, you're still not going to beat inflation, you're still not going to. You know, ever feel like you have enough, but like what? The opportunity? You know like, move, like go into Bali, for example, and living there, you know, it's just that's where the truth not even say money, really, but that's where, like, the true happiness and joy comes in. It's like that's being able to go. Do, you know, take life on your own standard and your own accord? For?

Speaker 2: 25:57

sure, and you know, like I say this all the time living a created life is not easy. Like it's easy in concept, you know. It's like getting clear about what you want. You said it earlier. We are not designed to do that Like we, we know. You know, as children I think we're very powerful with that. Like, if you, if you have little children around you, they are very good at being able to express what it is that they want and have that gotten for them.

Speaker 2: 26:22

And you know sometimes you know what they want may not always be like in their best interest, but the time between declaring something that they want and realizing it in reality is very short for small children, even if how they get it is by throwing a temper tantrum. Right.

Speaker 3: 26:40

I mean, and you think about that right there, like that's. I mean it's, you know, you see it, you know from I'm going to say this I'm religious, you know, from even from a Christian standpoint, you look at becoming a child. You know it's mentioned multiple times in the Bible. There's other religions that mention it as well, you know. But it's if you think about what a child is, you know how much time do we spend as adults imagining and that's, and you know. Then we think, okay, well, hey, maybe we are in this bottle. You know, as we're talking, it's just the more structure, the more walls you're putting up, you know, the less childlike you are. And really the child is the one who has the most opportunity because he or she can see himself in a spot of a unique situation, whether playing astronaut or playing like there's dinosaurs out there. The creativity is what our minds need, in my opinion.

Speaker 2: 27:32

I agree, and I think kids I think you know I mean I've studied neuroscience like we again, not from some place of being horrible adults who want to ruin children, it's not like that. But I think the systems, those bottles that you're talking about, you know, are kind of created by the systems in which we grew up, in the education system that the society, the people around us that helped to shape the way the world, we view the world and the way we think the world is. And we become less and less free as time goes on to be able to you know and less in touch with ourselves about what it is that we authentically want. And then we start to take on, you know, what are other people think we should do. And to the point where, I think, you know, when I meet some of my clients that can't even express, can't even express what they want, they don't even know that they have permission to ask that ask and answer that question.

Speaker 2: 28:28

And sometimes it takes a lot of courage to really look and say and I think this is like, this is my, my personal theory this is the source of midlife crises. People wake up one day and they look around their lives and they go. How did I get here? Like I know, like I know, I married this person. I know I bought this house. I know I like chose that car on some level, but like so much of it is I'm not happy, and so much of it is subconscious.

Speaker 2: 28:54

So much of the so-called choosing we do in life is from a place of a very subconscious behavior.

Speaker 3: 29:01

Well, and Tony Robbins says I mean, you probably know this as well and, like for listeners, it's such a beautiful idea that you can apply it in a heartbeat. If you don't believe what we're talking about is true, it's the aspect of all right, look around the room next time you're in a crowd and think about all right, I'm going to find all the red moment or other red items or subjects. Next thing, you know, close your eyes, think about what you just saw and then ask yourself, with your eyes closed, how many blue items did I see? You know, obviously this is a controlled situation, but the truth is you will always see and get what you picture and chase, which you don't know, what is being influenced Like who is asking you to see the red, and you're going to notice the red. You know which might be the car, the lifestyle, the whatever. And then you realize, like man, I was deep down. I was actually looking for a blue.

Speaker 2: 29:45

And you just don't realize it, you know. We get what we focus on. I think 100%. My partner and I were having this, like we he's not exactly on the same page as I am. He's growing in his beliefs around manifestation and all of these conversations, and so we're talking about winning the lottery the other night and he's like look at the odds, like and he's going to do research on Google and check to be tea about, like the odds of winning the lottery.

Speaker 3: 30:09

And he figures it out, let me know.

Speaker 2: 30:11

But yes, well, he did. The odds aren't really great and I'm not suggesting that anyone should base their pathway to, you know, wealth and abundance and success on the lottery. But I said, ok, well, let's look how many people have won the lottery more than like multiple times. And so I went and found evidence and proof online that, like there's this one woman who's in the US who's won the lottery 30 times in one day. Now, they weren't like the jackpot and they were, like you will find to Joey's point blue, blue, blue objects, red objects you're going to find evidence for whatever you're looking for, and so are you looking for things, whether it's in your business or your personal life? Are you looking for the things that that you want to be looking for? Are you looking for things that are influenced by what other people think you should be working towards or looking for, which I think is just brilliant? We kind of AI has come up a few times in this conversation.

Speaker 2: 31:05

I wanted to talk to you because you're a big proponent for what I can tell of artificial intelligence. I'm super excited by the possibilities. I mean, I'm very excited by how I've already used it and integrated it into my business, and I know I feel like I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg on what's possible with AI. And I also know that there's a lot of people out there who are like, ah, the world is ending. This is not good. The robots are coming. We're all going to be, you know, we're all going to lose our jobs. And there's a lot of fear around new technologies as well, especially something where it seems like it could seem like to people that there's going to be a huge transformation or transition in how work is done. Even artists right, I mean artists feeling like they're you can now create things, or AI can create things digitally. That, you know, takes artists much longer to do. So, you know. I'd love to hear your thoughts on AI and perhaps what your journey has become like been around using AI in your business for your clients.

Speaker 3: 32:09

Yeah. So I think the first part I'd like to bring up is that I don't think AI is as scary as people has made it to come out to our scene. I think the other key thing, too, is going back to the idea of watch the news. Have you ever felt at peace watching the news? Fox News, CNN, whatever? No, so one be careful where you're getting your information. That's my starting point, and I also want to say too is that you know, just like any fad, not saying AI is going to go away, but remember, Google got sued by a bunch of businesses back in the day because they thought they were stealing information.

Speaker 3: 32:41

Look how helpful Google is now. You know, in fact, the phrase itself means to search. You know, on top of that, if you think about what TV and radio did to publication, or what TV was to radio, radio was to publication, you know the difference that I think what happens is we as people have the same issues. It's just our ancestors Well, let's say this we're creatures of pattern, but also same in the sense of our answers have dealt with things, you know, for a long time of change and we do the same behavior. We freak out and I go, oh my gosh. Like you know, radio came out. What's going to be next? And we see the story about what is it? The War of the Worlds situation, where it was like radio in New York freaked out, you know you mean this guy isn't falling Joey, why?

Speaker 3: 33:25

I mean I better look outside real quick, you know. And then you look at what TV is done, and now you look at social media, and now you look at AI. I think they all have their place and they all have their warranted fears, but they also get blown out of proportion a lot. I think when we look at AI, we have to think of it from a standpoint of it still needs human interaction. There's not that situation of you know. Sure, there's always case stories of what AI could do, you know, but into the day there's a lot of situations where this is complete. You're only hearing about the AI situation that's related to the most craziest thing because the news needs it to blow up. The truth is, honestly, ai is automating so much stuff.

Speaker 3: 34:04

From a standpoint of my buddy just did this with his wife. They basically made their schedule for shopping using chatGPT Scheduled for all their shopping. They had it break down what they want to cook for the week, so it made meal plans for each for them using chatGPT and had it broken into tables also for their son I believe he's a year and a half old what he's going to be having for the week. Then, also, based off that, you know, they had their schedule. It was able to be downloaded to their phone, and then, on top of that, they went ahead and was able to make the shopping list for the week of all the ingredients. Then, on one more step, also had chatGPT make all the recipes. So, like, what a beautiful way to use it in home, you know, compared to the situation of oh my gosh, it's going to hack our Wi-Fi, it's going to take over the, you know it's. Let's take a step back here. Let's be realistic. Like, again, where's your red and blue focus going on, and I do think, though, there is a, I would say, a fear necessarily, in a sense, of that there's a false fear, but I think there is a reality that we're going to walk into, and I'm not saying lazy is the thing, but I do think there's a lazy answer that's going to be solved with AI, because there are a lot of jobs out there that can be automated, and I do believe that you have to be sharpening your skills. I think there's a huge aspect of you as a person have to be staying up to date with things.

Speaker 3: 35:18

Just in general, you know, if and I have a personal belief that we're never stagnant in life. It's either we're increasing or we're decreasing, at a rate we don't recognize it. So if we are stagnant or we are coasting or drifting, we're really decreasing, and which means, technically, we're replaced. Well, I mean, we're always replaceable to a point, but at the same time it's you know, are we staying competitive? Are we getting competitive from an athletic standpoint, if that's what we care about Are we staying competitive as a husband or wife? Are we staying competitive as a friend and family member? Are we staying competitive in our jobs, you know, and I mean competitive from a standpoint, are we growing and bringing value? And that's why I kind of look at the competitive side, because that's like growing that 1% every day kind of situation.

Speaker 3: 36:04

But the truth is is sure, is art going to change in a sense of accessibility based off AI 100%? Is there's jobs that are going to be outsourced 100% by AI? Yep, just like we ran into the situation with, you know, having people that you know we'll call it cheaper labor. You know, there's always something we're going to be fighting and I think it's just what. Are we sitting here pointing and blaming? If AI is unavoidable, why are you upset about it? You can't, you can't do anything about it. So it's like you know where. Then now it's like how do I leverage this or how do I maneuver around it? Because if you can't change it and you really believe so badly that AI is going to take your job, well, is it your fault when your job gets taken or is it your fault? I mean, is it truly your fault that you didn't get a new job? Kind of situation If you truly believe it's going to be taken over by AI.

Speaker 3: 36:52

But the thing that I have, you know, if we look at any pattern, it's everything blows up and then it pulls back, and I think we're going to see the same thing with AI. It's just sure there's going to be replacements and jobs, absolutely just like there is with any new technology. Same thing with cars and horses. I mean, in a sense, you know, but at the reason, I mean these are kind of like obvious, weirdly connected things. But you know, I get that AI brings a lot of more input or implications, from facial recognition to what we can do from, you know, tracking.

Speaker 3: 37:19

It is a really cool algorithm in my opinion, but I still think we're in the infancy stages of it all and I just think for people. I mean like, really think about where you're getting your information and ask yourself the question have I ever been happy reading the news or hearing the news? It's like no. So why would you expect to find AI to ever be a beneficial situation to you? But you're always going to be scared about it because they're always pushing a scared or upsetting narrative. But I do think, at the same time, it will pull back. I think we're going to have to. You know, we'll have 100 toys to play with right now and you're going to see the two or three big ones come out.

Speaker 3: 37:54

And don't get me wrong, I still think there's some things that are being very let's say, there are some AI stuff out there that's very intrusive, that we're going to have laws and regulations come around. You know there's, there are some. I'd call it, you know, the. That's a scary things, necessarily, but there are some things that I would say that we should be warned, in the sense of what's going on with facial recognition, what's being on with tracking, with devices. You know, creating behaviors, things like that, but at the same time, you know, can you really avoid it? No, but you can definitely be an advocate on having it slow down for sure. So and I know that's a very long winded answer I think I know I love it.

Speaker 3: 38:29

You know I'm excited for it, but I also think there's there's a lot of BS fear in there. But there also is some real truth that we have to be careful with AI as well.

Speaker 2: 38:40

I love you said has anyone ever been happy with the news? It's so interesting, like from the lens from which we view things and I know you're American. They actually have really nice news stories in New Zealand, like I was born in New Zealand, joey, and like a lot of the news so it's definitely in North America. I think it's very accurate that no one has ever been happy watching the news and I try not to myself, because it's just like what is the news exists for now, and we could have a whole other conversation about what the news, like what media, was meant to do and the important role. There's a great book, rich Media, poor Democracy, by Robert McKenzie and the media monopoly by Ben Begdicky, and for anyone out there who's interested in those topics that did a course on it in university, there's a direct relationship between a strong and powerful and independent media and democracy and freedom and we are seeing, like I'm.

Speaker 2: 39:29

I'm even at a point where, like on certain topics, I don't follow the news a lot, although certain things do pop. Or you know, there are certain topics that I kind of can't not look at because I'm human and you know I don't want to go get into that necessarily right now. But I'm like man, what do you trust? Who do you believe? And that is because of this degrading of that, you know, the monetizing of the media and the degrading of people's trust and being able to to really know what's, in my opinion, anyway, what's happening. So, not to go down that rabbit hole, but I, so I do think you're right.

Speaker 2: 40:00

No one is, no one in North America is happy watching the news, and so be very careful about, I mean, this for me is protecting your bubble, right. I put a bubble up around myself and I protect what comes in from the outside, right? So try not to, because it just doesn't empower me to be out there in the world making a difference, serving people, when I'm kind of listening to a lot of that which is really intentionally designed to upset people and cause strife, right.

Speaker 3: 40:25

I mean it's, it's like, it's like sugar it's. It may taste sweet, but you can't have, you can't overdo it. It causes cancer eventually.

Speaker 2: 40:33

I've never heard that analogy but it's apt. I like it, I think. And someone who provides services and like business analysis, project management, change management, I'm amazed I'll go to Google. I even taught. I teach right. I tell my students I'm like man, you can like make a whole project plan on that thing. Chat you bet and that's just one, by the way, for anyone listening to this, if you have any idea how many tools are actually out there that are using AI, that are beyond just chat you bet, and it's pretty astounding and amazing and I'm just like If anything, set up your Google alerts on your, on your laptop or your desktop, and just set up AI like make Google you will get bombarded with because it'll give you alert every morning.

Speaker 3: 41:14

The newest articles of AI I had to.

Speaker 2: 41:17

I put up.

Speaker 3: 41:18

I put up facial recognition just out. I had to turn it off because I'm like this makes me nervous. That's why I was kind of like you got to be careful. There are some things out there, but well, there's a lot of AI cool stuff that's happening.

Speaker 2: 41:28

You know. So I love these conversations I have with people because they they cause me to think about things I hadn't thought about before. So I 100% agree, I think, and our networks of conversations around this new emerging technology, you know, are going to shape it as well, because I really do believe we get what we talk about. So if we're going to come from this place of fear, then you know, and abuse, and there is some already which makes me think this is this new idea I had. I studied bioethics in school, which is basically the ethics of medicine, right? So science says can we do something like cloning or, you know, can we clone a sheep? Whereas bioethics is like should we clone a sheep? Right, it's like the philosophical, ethical component of medicine and science. And in this way and I I don't know that that really exists for technology yet, and it might be interesting to see if I don't want to bring up a dinosaur reference but, I'm like, oh, this is like Dr.

Speaker 3: 42:20

What's his name? Not Grant, the other guy, and I can't think of his name where he's like, should we play God?

Speaker 2: 42:25

You know what I mean, jeff.

Speaker 3: 42:25

Goldblum. Jeff, oh yeah, the sexy man laid on the medical table at the drastic yeah, oh yeah, I almost bought that autograph just because I wanted that picture hanging up and I'm like I'll find it if I want.

Speaker 2: 42:36

But yeah, I love, I love Jeff Goldblum. There's a video of him on the floats around Instagram once a while of him reading a poem by one of my my favorite poems by George Bernard Shaw. Around you know, just lighting. It's called the slender torch. But yeah, like there is no real governing body or standards globally around you know, or a place where you know I'm not saying people aren't having these conversations about the ethics of tech, ethics and technology, and I mean Syfy's been having these conversations for forever. But I think it's. It's interesting because, yeah, there are some. There will need to be some guardrails put on at some point in time. I love it as a teacher. There's this great new website. I can't remember the name of it right now, but they basically have found created a very elegant way to help students cheat so that you know you can go on and find out all of your tests, like the information for tests, and get the books for your courses for very cheap. I don't know if I should actually be promoting this, but message me afterwards.

Speaker 2: 43:38

But what's so interesting about it is so they've provided this service, ok, fine, and they're using AI to help get a lot of this information fine. But then they've created, like this, additional service for instructors if you want your, or teachers, if you want your course blocked, you can pay them so that they will block your course on their site. And I'm like, wow, you guys have a lot of audacity, you know like it's all about monetization.

Speaker 3: 44:04

It's like how fast can we make money with this from any direction?

Speaker 2: 44:08

Well, I think the longer you know, so back to you know, you come full circle in conversation sometimes, joey, I think if that's your focus, you know, if that's what human beings are going to be at work on, you know, is how much money can we make and how can we monetize things, and how can we monetize people or technology or whatever it is, then the world's going to look a certain way, and I think the world really looks that way. It looks like a bunch of people trying to figure out how to make as much money as they can and have that be some determiner of how successful they are. And well, maybe that's not. And to your point earlier, what's the relationship between money, money and happiness? So you know, there's lots of people with lots of money who are very unhappy and so so I think it's just it's interesting to look from that place, like where does you happiness lie?

Speaker 3: 44:58

Yeah, I mean you look at one of the top ranked books, best sellers out there it's, and the question is like you want to think of it in deeper. It's like, if you're listening, why is this book a top rated seller like, or top whatever, amazon, new York time, whatever, it's all for happy. Why is that book such a desired book across the world? Because people aren't happy, because they're trying to solve for that, and I think that's half the issue. It's that we've misfocused a lot of things, and I'm not saying that book has all the answers. I don't know affiliation of that book, but I think it's a great topic in a sense of that application of solving for happy or the application of applying it, you know, and what it talks about. But it is interesting, though, when you look at that aspect of like when and where should we stop? And that's hard. You know it's a very hard situation Because, again, we don't know the implications of where the problems are and where they lie, and I guarantee that we're not being told by any means how advanced this thing really is and how far along it's already gone. I see that in advertising all the time. We don't get to buy certain data points until I'm pretty sure the government's already had their fair share of it.

Speaker 3: 46:10

I always joke. It's like, why do you think the? Why do you think iPhone had fingerprints and then facial scans and then retina scans? Like, oh, that's so weird when I have to go to get a passport and walk through and, you know, or I want to do TSA pre-checks and things like that. So ironic that even for military backgrounds, I still have to do those same things that I have to do to unlock my phone. Well, who's collecting that data? Or who's buying that data? You know what I mean. Like there's so many things that we have to think about. That's like not even that we've been preconditioned, but we've been feeding something for a while, you know, and whether something's good or bad, that's the question too. It's like how do we know? How do we know when it's too late and how do we know when it's the right path to go down or when it's not? But it also goes back to you know what's the characteristics of the people that are running it? What's their background? Who are they?

Speaker 1: 47:00

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:00

Yeah, I just wish. I always say I wish politicians and you know, just people in the media news could just wear like the NASCAR jacket and I could see all the patches who sponsor them. So that's rendering you want to know what I want in five years, that's, I want a NASCAR Jack for every politician and scientist and business person. But I'll buy the jackets, I'll help pitch them.

Speaker 2: 47:24

That's awesome. Oh, I love it. I'm taking an extra moment. I don't normally do this on the show, but it is December 8th. Like the 8th of December right now. We're coming into the end of a year and, although I'm not a huge fan of New Year's resolutions, I think you can, you know, start like make a decision, start today with what? The way you have to create what you want in your life. That's my go-to attitude around creation, but I do think it is a natural time of pause and reflection as we move through the holidays and kind of enter that move through the threshold for another year, Joey. So what are you taking away? What are your big takeaways from 2023? And what are you looking forward to in 2024?

Speaker 3: 48:05

I think three big things for sure, you know, and they're each in different areas. One, it this is the philosophy and the idea that it's going to get better. We saw the whole COVID situation and the and I'm not downplaying that by any means, you know, but we just saw the world go on a break and we just thought the whole world was going to be turning up and it did turn upside down, you know. But 2023, even though you know we still had, you know, some precursors thanks to the COVID situation, you know we've really seen people come together, you know, and really kind of start building again, if you want to call it, you know. So I think 2024, I want to keep that mindset of you know it's going to get better.

Speaker 3: 48:44

We've seen a lot of businesses fail, a lot of people's lives changed, a lot of death, you know, and a lot of in-between opinions on both sides situations, but I think the idea of just the growth aspect of, you know, the economy and people and ourselves being able to get back to normal lives it happened a lot more in 2023. I'm hoping 2024, you know we progress in that way too as well. Also, you know, I really, for me personally, I really looking forward to the aspect of just getting out more with people trying to get more. I'm actually going to go a little bit more into next year into the coaching aspect with businesses. I have a real passion to take a business either from scratch or, you know, go into diving into how to, let's call it, captivate your market, let alone, you know, capture it. So that's been a big thing.

Speaker 3: 49:27

But you know, I just, I think, getting back to really understanding a little bit more of who you are, where you want to go and I'm a big reader so I love reading. I probably watch more YouTube and listen to more podcasts than any person ever should, probably at least an hour and a half on each platform. Yesterday, I'm pretty sure, I listened to about three hours on YouTube, just as I'm working on absorbing stuff, taking notes here and there. But you know, just really really defining on, or really you know kind of not just defining but really growing in. You know the platform, let's call it the vertical that I want to be in. You know not just being settled or, you know, satisfied with the aspect of OK, I know enough, it's just, you know, am I growing enough for where I want to go and being clear on my vision and my purpose.

Speaker 2: 50:08

Hmm, I love it. Well, Joey, I didn't you know. It's funny Sometimes like when people you're one of a new group of guests that I got through this new action I took going on this Facebook group. I've shared about this before and so often a lot of the guests I've had on the show are people that I know really well, and so as I was preparing for your interview, I was like I am not sure how this conversation is going to go, Just because, like you know, you just never know that you're new to, and I'm just so grateful. I'm so grateful for having had the opportunity to connect with you and learn about everything that you're committed to and what you're up to in the world, and I'm grateful for what you shared about the Innocence Project and your father and and I think the truth will out, and I think it's important that we stand for for truth and justice Things.

Speaker 3: 50:58

I think it's one of the most beautiful. Oh, I don't mean to reprimand.

Speaker 2: 51:02

Yeah, I just think it's so beautiful and really acknowledge your father for, you know, for not being willing to, to, to stand for anything less than the truth and justice, because I think that's very important for us as human beings.

Speaker 3: 51:17

Yeah, and I think you know, if it wasn't for people like him and I know there's so many out there, especially in the Innocence Project. You know, our goal in life should be to fight for truth, you know, and that's that. He's a great story, a great example of it. But there's, especially in the world of media and news, as we talk to AI, you know, there's a lot of issues that we don't know. You know, and there's a lot of false truths. Truths or we don't call it lies, and just having you know, clear pictures around every topic is so much desired in today's world. So I appreciate what you're saying about him.

Speaker 2: 51:52

The authenticity you know. I think part of what you're pointing to is authenticity. So thank you for being your authentic self with me and and I'm looking forward to I believe, that everyone comes into your path for a reason. So it's, you know, no accident. We met and who knows what the future holds, and perhaps, you know, in 2024, I'll see you in Bali, but that's what I was just saying.

Speaker 3: 52:10

I'm like Bali vacation, yeah, so I appreciate you having me, thank you.

Speaker 2: 52:16

Yeah, everyone listening. You'll be able to find out how to connect with Joey and all of the awesome things he's up to in 2023 and 2024 and beyond through the show notes and just. Thank you so much for joining us today for this conversation that matters, and I will talk to you next week.

Speaker 1: 52:32

Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. For more information on the show and our extraordinary guests, check out conversations that matter podcastcom.